I once heard loud shouts, which seemed to gurgle up from the lower regions through waters, one toward the left, crying, “O how just!” another toward the right, “O how learned!” and a third from behind, “O how wise!” And as the thought came to me, whether even in hell there are just, learned and wise persons, I had a desire to see whether there were or not; and it was said to me from heaven, “You shall see and hear.”

And having in spirit left the house I saw before me an opening; and approaching it, and looking down, I saw a ladder by which I descended. And when I was below I saw plains covered with shrubbery intermixed with thorns and nettles; and I asked whether this was hell.  They said, “This is the lower earth, which is just above hell.” Then following the order of the shouts, I went first toward the cry, “O how just!” and I saw an assembly of those who in the world had been judges, and who had been influenced by friendship and bribes; then toward the second cry, “O how learned!” and I saw an assembly of those who in the world had been reasoners; then toward the third cry, “O how wise!” and I saw an assembly of those who in the world had been confirmers.

From these latter I turned to the first, where the judges were who had been influenced by friendship and bribes and who were proclaimed just; and I saw at the side as it were an amphitheater built of brick and roofed with black tiles; and I was told that in that was their Tribunal.  On the north side there were three entrances to it and on the west three, but none on the south and east, an indication that their decisions were not decisions of justice, but arbitrary.

[2] In the center of the amphitheater was a fire-place, into which the servants attending the fire were throwing pitch-pine dipped in sulphur and bitumen, the light from which, flickering upon the plastered walls, presented images of birds of evening and night. But this fire-place, and the flickering of the light from it forming such images were representations of their decisions, that they were able to color the facts in any case, and give them an appearance according to their own prepossessions.

[3] Half an hour afterwards I saw old men and young men clad in gowns and cloaks enter, and removing their caps, take seats beside the tables to sit in judgment.  And I heard and perceived how skilfully and ingeniously, out of regard for friendship, they turned and twisted their decisions into seeming justice; and this they did to such an extent that they did not see their injustice to be anything but justice, or what is just to be anything but unjust.  Such persuasions concerning these matter shone from their faces and were heard in the tones of their voices. There was then granted me enlightenment from heaven, whereby I had a perception of each particular, whether it was in accordance with justice or not; and I saw how industriously they veiled over injustice, and made it look like justice, and selected from the laws that which favored them, to which they bent the matter in question, and by skilful reasonings put all else aside.  After their decisions had been given, they were announced without to their clients, friends, and partisans, and these, to return the favor, cried out for a long distance, “O how just! O how just!”

[4] After this I talked about these with the angels of heaven, and told them some of the things that I had seen and heard.  And the angels said,  “Such judges seem to others to be gifted with the keenest intellectual vision, when in fact they do not see the least particle of justice or equity.  If you take away their friendship for anyone, they sit in judgment like statues, and merely say, `I grant it; I agree to this, or to that.‘ This is because all their decisions are prejudiced, and their prejudice with partiality follows the case from beginning to end; consequently they see nothing in it but their friend’s interest; at everything opposed to this, they look askance, viewing it with piratical glances, and if they take it up again they involve it in reasonings as spiders entangle their captives in their webs and devour them.  Therefore it is that when they do not follow the thread of their prejudice, they see nothing of what is right.  They have been examined as to whether they were able to see, and they were found unable.  The inhabitants of your world will be astonished at this fact, but tell them that this is a truth that has been investigated by the angels of heaven.  Because they see nothing of justice, we in heaven do not think of them as men, but as monstrous images of men, the heads of which are formed of what pertains to friendship, the breasts of what pertains to injustice, the hands and feet of what pertains to confirmation, and the soles of the feet of what pertains to justice; and if this is unfavorable to their friends, they cast it under foot and trample upon it.

[5] But what they are, viewed in themselves, you shall see, for their end is near.”

And lo, the ground suddenly gaped, the tables fell one upon another, and the men, together with the whole amphitheater, were swallowed up, cast into caverns and imprisoned.

I was then asked if I wished to see them there; and behold, they appeared with faces like polished steel; their bodies from the neck to the loins looked like sculptured work clothed with leopard skins, and their feet like serpents. And I saw the lawbooks which had lain upon their tables turned into playing-cards; and now instead of acting as judges they were hired to make cinnabar into paint for besmearing the faces of harlots, and turning them into beauties.

Having seen all this, I wished to visit the other two assemblies, one composed of mere reasoners and the other of mere confirmers.  But I was told to wait a while, and angel companions would be given me from a society most nearly above those spirits, and that through them light would be given me from the Lord, and I would see marvelous things.

TCR 333. Second Memorable Relation:-

After a while I heard again from the lower earth the exclamations I had heard before, “O how learned!  O how learned!”  And I looked about to see who were present, and behold the angels were there who occupied the heaven directly above those who cried, “O how learned!”

To these I spoke about the shouting, and they said, “Those learned spirits are such as merely reason whether a thing is so or is not, and who rarely think that it is so.  Therefore they are like winds that come and go, like bark around hollow trees, and like nutshells without a kernel; or like a rind about fruit without pulp; for their minds are devoid of interior judgment, and are merely united with the bodily senses; unless therefore the senses themselves decide, they are able to form no conclusions.  In a word, they are merely sensual, and we call them Reasoners.  They are so called because they never come to a conclusion about anything, but take up whatever they hear and dispute as to whether it is so or not, with unceasing contention.  They love nothing better than to attack truths, and tear them to pieces by bringing them into disputation.  These believe themselves to be more learned than all others in the world.”

[2] Having heard this, I asked the angels to conduct me to them; and they led me to a cave, from which steps descended to the lower earth. We went down, following the cry, “O how learned!”  And behold, several hundred spirits stood in one place, stamping upon the ground.  Wondering at this I asked why they thus stood and stamped the ground with their feet, adding, that they might make a hole in it with their feet.

At this the angels smiled and said, “They appear so to stand still, because their thought on any subject is never that it is so, but only whether it is so or not, and thus it is a matter of dispute; and as they never get beyond this in their thought, they appear as never advancing, but only as treading and wearing on one spot.”

The angels also said, “Those who come from the natural world into this and hear that they are in another world form themselves into companies in many places and ask where heaven is, where hell is, and where God is. And when they have been told they begin to reason, dispute, and contend about whether there is a God. This they do, because in the natural world at the present day, there are so many naturalists, who, whenever religion is talked about, bring the subject into dispute, both among themselves and with others; and the discussion of this question rarely terminates in an affirmation of belief that there is a God.  Afterwards these persons associate themselves more and more with the wicked, which is done because no one can do any good from the love of good, except from God.”

[3] After this I was conducted to that assembly, and behold, there appeared to me men handsomely clothed and with faces not unbecoming; and the angels said, “These so appear in their own light; but if the light of heaven flows in, both their faces and their garments are changed.” And when the light of heaven was admitted, they appeared with dusky faces and clothed in coarse black garments; but thin light being withdrawn, they appeared as before.

Presently I talked with some of the assembly, and said, “I heard from the throng about you the shout, `O how learned!‘ It may therefore be permissible to have a conversation with you on matters of the most learned nature.”

They replied, “Say what you please; we will give you a satisfactory answer.”

And I asked, “What kind of religion is necessary for the salvation of man?”

They answered, “We will divide this question into several; and until these are decided we can give no reply.  The investigation will proceed as follows:

1. Is religion anything?

2. Is there such a thing as salvation or not?

3. Is one religion more efficacious than another?

4. Is there a heaven and a hell?

5. Is there an eternal life after death? besides other questions.”

I asked about the first question, Is religion anything? and they began to discuss it with a host of arguments.  I begged of them to refer it to the assembly.  They did; and the general response was, that this proposition required so much investigation that it could not be finished before evening.

I asked them whether they could finish it within a year.

One of them replied, that it could not be finished in a hundred years.

I answered, “Meanwhile you are without religion; and as salvation depends on this, you are without any idea of salvation or any belief in it or hope of it.”

He replied, “Must it not first be shown whether there is such a thing as religion, and what it is, and whether it is anything? If it is, it must be also for the wise; if not, it must be for the vulgar only.  It is known that religion is called a bond; but for whom is it a bond?  If for the vulgar only in reality it is not anything; but if for the wise also, then it is something.”

[4] Hearing this, I said, “You are anything but learned, because you are able to think only whether a thing is so or not, and bandy it from one side to the other. How can a man be learned unless he knows something for a certainty and advances in the knowledge of it as a man walks, step by step, thus gradually attaining to wisdom? Otherwise you do not even touch truths with the tip of your finger, but you remove them further and further out of sight. Therefore to reason merely as to whether a thing is so or not, is to reason about the fit of a cap or shoe without ever trying it on.  What then comes of this but that you do not know whether anything is a reality, or is only an idea, thus whether there is such a thing as salvation, or eternal life after death, whether one religion is better than another, or whether there is a heaven and a hell?  On these subjects you cannot think at all so long as you stick at the first step, and tread the ground there, instead of bringing forward one foot after the other, and going on.  Have a care for your selves lest your minds, while standing thus outside the door of judgment, grow hard within and become like pillars of salt.”

So saying I withdrew, while they from indignation threw stones after me.  They then appeared to me like graven images in which there is nothing of human reason.  I asked the angels of the lot of such; and they said that the lowest of them were sent down into the deep, into a desert there, and are compelled to carry packs; and then, as they are unable to evolve anything from reason, they gabble and talk nonsense, and at a distance they appear like asses caring burdens.

TCR 334. Third Memorable Relation:-

After this, one of the angels said, “Follow me to the place where they shout, ”O how wise!“ and you will see monsters of men; you will see faces and bodies that are human, and yet they are not men.”

“Are they beasts, then?” I asked.

He replied, “They are not beasts, but beast-men; for they are those who are utterly unable to see whether truth is truth or not, and yet can make whatever they wish seem true.  With us, such are called Confirmers.”

We followed the shouting, and came to the place; and behold, an assembly of men, and around about them a throng, and in the throng some of noble birth, and when these heard them prove whatever they themselves were saying and uphold it with so manifest a concurrence, they turned around and shouted, “O how wise!”

[2] But the angel said to me, “Let us not go among them, but call one of the assembly to us.” And we called one out and withdrew with him, and talked over various subjects; and he confirmed them one by one until they seemed to be perfectly true.

We asked him whether he could confirm things contrary to each other; and he said he could just as well as the others. He then said openly and from his heart, “What is truth? Is there anything true in the nature of things, other than what man makes true?  Say what you please and I will make it true.”

I said, “Make this true that faith is the all of the church.”

And this he did so dextrously and skilfully that the learned bystanders admired and applauded.  I then asked him to make it true that charity is the all of the church; and he did so; and then that charity is no part of the church; and he so clothed and decorated both statements with appearances that the bystanders would look at each other, and say, “Is he not wise?”

I then said, “Do you not know that to live well is charity, and to believe well is faith?  Does not he who lives well also believe well? Thus does not faith belong to charity and charity to faith?  Do you not see that this is true?”

He answered, “I will make it true, and I shall see.” This he did and said, “I see it now.” But immediately he made the contrary true, and then he said, “I see that this is true also.”

At this we smiled and said, “Are they not contraries? How can two contraries both be true?”

Becoming angry at this, he said, “You are wrong; both are true, inasmuch as there is nothing true but what man makes true.”

[3] There was one standing near who in the world had been an ambassador of the highest grade. He was astonished at this and said, “I acknowledge that something like this goes on in the world, nevertheless you are insane.  Make it true, if you can, that light is darkness, and that darkness is light.”

He answered, “I can do that easily.  What are light and darkness but states of the eye?  Is not light turned to shade when the eye turns from sunlight, as also when a man fixes his eye intently upon the sun? Who does not know that the state of the eye is then changed, and that therefore light appears as shade? And again, when the former state of the eye returns, this shade appears as light. Does not the owl see the darkness of night as the light of day, and the light of day as the darkness of night, and even the sun itself as an opaque and dusky globe?  If a man had eyes like an owl’s what would he call light and what darkness? What then is light but a state of the eye? And if light is only a state of the eye, is not light darkness and darkness light? Therefore both statements are true.”

[4] But as this confirmation confounded some, I said, “I have noticed that this confirmer does not know that there is a true light and a fatuous light, and that both kinds seem to be light; yet the fatuous light in reality is not light, but compared to true light is darkness. An owl is in fatuous light; for within its eyes there is a passion for tearing birds to pieces and devouring them, and this light causes its eyes to see at night, precisely like those of cats, whose eyes in cellars look like lighted candles.  It is the fatuous light arising within their eyes from the passion for tearing mice to pieces and devouring them, which produces this effect. Evidently, therefore, the light of the sun is true light, and the light of greed is fatuous light.”

[5] After this, the ambassador asked the confirmer to make it true that a raven is white and not black.

He answered, “That also I can easily do.” And he said, “Take a needle or a razor, and open the quills and feathers of a raven; then remove the quills and feathers, and look at the raven‘s skin; is it not white? What is the blackness that surrounds it, but a shade, from which we must not judge of the color of the raven? For proof that black is only a shade, consult those skilled in the science of optics, and they will tell you that if you grind a black stone or black glass to fine powder, you will see that the powder is white.”

But the ambassador said, “Does not the raven appear to the sight to be black?”

The confirmer answered, “Are you, who are a man, willing to consider a subject from appearances? You may indeed say according to the appearance that a raven is black but you cannot think so.  As for example you may say according to the appearance, that the sun rises and sets; but as you are a man you cannot think so, because the sun is motionless and the earth moves.  It is the same with a raven.  The appearance is an appearance.  Say what you will, a raven is totally white; it even becomes white when it grows old; this I have seen.”

After this the bystanders looked at me; therefore I said, “It is true that the quills and feathers of a raven partake of whiteness inwardly; so does its skin; but this is the case not only with ravens but all the birds in the universe as well; and everyone distinguishes birds by their apparent colors; if this were not done, we might say that every bird is white, which would be absurd and meaningless.”

[6] Then the ambassador asked him whether he could make it true that he was himself insane; and he answered, “I can, but I do not wish to do so.  Who is not insane?”

Finally, they asked him to say from his heart whether he was jesting, or really believed that there is nothing true but what man makes true; and he said, “I swear that I believe it.”

Afterwards this universal confirmer was sent to the angels, who examined his character; and after the examination they said that he did not possess a single grain of understanding, because in him everything above the rational was closed, and only that below the rational was open; above the rational there is spiritual light, and below the rational natural light; and this light in man is such that by it he can confirm whatever he pleases.  When spiritual light does not flow into natural light, man does not see whether any truth is a truth, nor, therefore, whether any falsehood is a falsehood; these must be seen from spiritual light in natural light, and spiritual light is from the God of heaven, who is the Lord.  Therefore this universal confirmer is neither man nor beast, but is a beast-man.

[7] I asked the angels about the lot of such, whether they could be with the living, since man has life from spiritual light, and from this comes his understanding.  They said that such, when they are alone, are unable to think at all and therefore to speak, but stand dumb like automatons and as it were in a deep sleep; but that they wake up the moment their ears catch anything.  They added that those who are inmostly wicked become such; into these spiritual light from above cannot flow, but only something spiritual from the world from which they derive their faculty of confirming.

[8] When this had been said I heard a voice from the angels who examined him, saying, “From what you have heard form a universal conclusion.”

This was the conclusion:  That the ability to confirm whatever one pleases is not an indication of understanding; but the ability to see that truth is truth, and that falsehood is falsehood, and to confirm it is an indication of understanding.

After this, I looked toward the assembly where the confirmers were standing with the crowd about them crying, “O how wise!” And lo! a dusky cloud enveloped them, and in the cloud owls and bats were flying. And it was told me, “The owls and bats that are flying in the cloud were correspondences and therefore appearances of their thoughts; because in this world confirmations of falsities to such an extent that they seem to be truths, are represented under the forms of birds of night, whose eyes are illumined within by a fatuous light, whereby they see objects in darkness as in light.  Such fatuous spiritual light do those have who confirm falsities until they seem like truths, and who afterward believe them to be truths.  All such have a sort of backward sight, but no forward sight.”

TCR 335. Fourth Memorable Relation:-

Once when I awakened from sleep in the morning twilight, I saw as it were specters before my eyes in various shapes; and afterward when it was daylight I saw fatuous lights of different forms; some like sheets of paper filled with writing and folded again and again, so that they looked like falling stars which in their descent vanished in the air; and some like open books, some of which shone like little moons, and some burned like candles; among these were some books that ascended to a great height and there perished, and others that fell down to the earth and there crumbled to dust.  From these appearances I conjectured that there were those standing below these meteors who dispute about imaginary matters, which they deem of great importance; for in the spiritual world such phenomena appear in the atmospheres from the reasonings of those standing below.

And presently the sight of my spirit was opened, and I saw a number of spirits whose heads were wreathed with leaves of laurel, and their bodies clothed with flowered gowns, which signified that they were spirits who in the natural world had been famed for erudition.  As I was in the spirit, I approached and mingled with the assembly.  I then heard that they were bitterly and hotly disputing about connate ideas, whether any such were inherent in man from birth, as in beasts.

Those who were in the negative turned away from those in the affirmative, and at length they stood apart from each other like the ranks of two armies ready to fight sword in hand; but as they had no swords, they fought with the points of words.

[2] But suddenly an angelic spirit stood in their midst, and speaking with a loud voice said, “At a short distance from you I heard that you were engaged in hot dispute about connate ideas, whether they are inherent in men as in beasts; but I tell you, that men have no connate ideas, and that beasts have no ideas at all.  You are therefore quarreling about nothing, or as the saying is, about goats’ wool, or the beard of Time.”

Hearing this, they were all enraged and shouted, “Put him out; he talks contrary to common sense.”

But when they tried to put him out they saw that he was encompassed with heavenly light which they could not break through; for he was an angelic spirit.  They therefore drew back and moved a little way from him; and when the light had been indrawn, the angel said to them, “Why are you angry? First listen, and put together the reasons I shall offer, and form a conclusion from them yourselves.  I foresee that those among you who excel in judgment will accede, and will calm the tempests that have arisen in your minds.”

At these remarks they said, though still in an indignant tone, “Speak then, and we will listen.”

[3] So the angel began and said, “You believe that beasts have connate ideas; and this you have inferred from the fact that their actions seem to proceed from thought; and yet they have no thought whatever, and ideas are only predicable of thought.  Furthermore, it is a characteristic of thought that those who think act in this or that manner for this or that purpose.  Consider therefore, whether the spider which weaves its web with such perfect art thinks in its little head, I will stretch out my threads in this way, and bind them together with cross-threads, so that my web may not be blown asunder by a violent rush of air; at the inner ends of the threads, which shall form the center of the web, I will prepare a seat for myself, where I shall feel whatever touches my web, and run at once to the spot; so that if a fly gets in, he shall be entangled, and I will rush upon him instantly and bind him fast, and he shall serve me for food.  Or again, does a bee think in his little head, I will fly abroad; I know where there are fields in bloom; and there I will get wax from the flowers, and will suck honey from them; and with the wax I will build compact rows of little cells in such a way that I and my companions can go in and out easily, as if by streets; then I will store in them abundance of honey, enough even for the coming winter, so that we may not die; - and other marvelous things, in which they not only vie with the political and economical prudence of man, but even surpass it (n. 12)?

[4] Again, does the hornet think in his little head, I and my companions will build for ourselves a little house of thin paper, the walls of which we will make within like a labyrinth; and in the inmost we will prepare a kind of forum to which there shall be a way of ingress and of egress, contrived with such art that no living creature except those belonging to our own family, shall find the way to the inmost place where we are assembled?  Again, does the silk-worm, while it is a grub, think in its little head, Now is the time for me to prepare to spin silk, so that when it is spun, I may fly forth, and in the air, into which I could not ascend before, may sport with my equals and provide myself a posterity?  Or do other worms so think, when they creep about the walls, and become nymphs, aureliae, chrysalides, and finally butterflies?  Has a fly any idea about having congress with another in some one place and not another?

[5] It is the same with larger animals as it is with these smaller ones; with birds and feathered creatures of all kinds when they pair, build their nests. lay their eggs therein, sit on them, hatch their young, provide food for them, care for them until they can fly, and then drive them from the nests as if they were not their own offspring; besides many other things. It is the same also with the beasts of the earth, with serpents and with fishes.  Who among you cannot see from the above statements that the spontaneous acts of these creatures do not flow from any thought, of which alone ideas can be predicated? The error that beasts have ideas has come from no other source than a persuasion that they think equally with men, and that speech alone makes the difference between them.”

[6] After this, the angelic spirit looked around, and as he saw them still hesitating whether or not beasts have thought, he continued his discourse, and said, “I perceive that from those actions of brute animals that are similar to human actions, there still clings to you the fanciful idea that they possess thought.  I will tell you, therefore, the source of those actions. Every beast, every bird, every fish, reptile, and insect has its own natural, sensual, and corporeal love, the abode of which is its head and the brains there; through their brains the spiritual world flows into their bodily senses immediately, and through them determines their actions; this is the reason why their bodily senses are much more exquisite than those of men. That influx from the spiritual world is what is called instinct; and it is called instinct because it exists without the mediation of thought.  There are also things accessory to instinct that arise from habit.  But their love, through which comes from the spiritual world their determination to action, is a love solely for nutrition and propagation, not for any knowledge, intelligence, or wisdom, by means of which the love in men is gradually developed.”

[7] That man has no connate ideas, is manifestly evident from the fact that he has no connate thought; and where there is no thought there are no ideas; for they belong mutually to each other. This may be inferred from new-born infants, in that they can do nothing but suck and breathe.  Their being able to suck is not from anything connate, but from a continual sucking in the mother‘s womb; and they are able to breathe because they are alive, for this is a universal of life.  Even their bodily senses are in the utmost obscurity, and from this they gradually work their way out by means of objects; and in like manner their powers of motion by habitual exercise. And as they gradually learn to utter words and pronounce them at first without any idea, there springs up in them some obscure element of fancy; and as this grows clearer an obscure element of imagination is born, and from that, of thought. Along with the forming of this state ideas spring forth, which, as before said, make one with thought; and from no thought, thought is developed by instruction.  While, therefore, men have ideas, they are not connate, but are formed, and from them flow their speech and actions.

That nothing is connate with man except a capacity to know, to understand, and to be wise, as also an inclination to love not only these things but also the neighbor and God, may be seen in the Memorable Relation above (n. 48), and also in some Memorable Relations further on.

After this I looked around and saw Leibnitz and Wolf near at hand, who were attending closely to the reasoning advanced by the angelic spirit.  Leibnitz then drew near and expressed his concurrence; but Wolf went away both denying and affirming, for he did not excel in interior judgment as Leibnitz did.

True Christian Religion - Containing the Universal Theology of the New Heaven and New Church #332-335
- E. Swedenborg 1688-1772

Index of Memorable Relations

Return to Spiritual Frontier HomePage

• To obtain books related to the above, contact The Swedenborg Foundation.
• To obtain a CD ROM of the Writings of Swedenborg and the Holy Scriptures, go to NCO.

Generated by: timlig@pacbell.net - 12\26\96